EMS Coder to Entrepreneur with Tamara Taylor
Join us this week as we welcome Tamara Taylor, an entrepreneur who turned her knowledge of coding into a thriving business. In this episode, learn how she supports and empowers EMS professionals to navigate the complex world of medical coding. Tamara highlights her journey to entrepreneurship and the challenges and triumphs she encountered along the way.
Tamara also shares valuable insights into the importance of medical coding for EMS providers, overcoming obstacles in the industry, and the growth of her business. Whether you're in logistics, EMS, or just interested in entrepreneurial journeys, this episode is packed with invaluable lessons and inspiration.
Learn more about the world of EMS: https://routeconsultant.com/learn-ems-routes
Contact Tamara - EMS Revenue Pro: https://www.emsrevpro.com
About Tamara Taylor
Tamara’s path started with dreams of architecture and basketball, but her journey led her into the world of medical coding by way of an 18-month program at Virginia College. She worked in gastroenterology and surgical coding before returning to teach at her alma mater and briefly working for the Department of Defense. But the pull toward entrepreneurship—and flexibility for her kids—led her back to Atlanta with a mission to start her own firm.
In 2019, she took on her first ambulance client and taught herself the ins and outs of EMS billing. Through relentless learning, client trust, and word-of-mouth referrals, she’s built EMS Revenue Pro LLC into a company that now supports dozens of providers across the region. Tamara’s story is one of adaptability, empowerment, and a daily commitment to solving real problems in a misunderstood industry.
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Industry Insights with Route Consultant, your front row seat to the fast moving world of logistics and beyond. Each week, we bring you game changing insights, real world strategies and fresh perspectives to fuel smarter investments and build stronger businesses. Join us as we sit down with expert guests to explore emerging trends and pressing topics.
Across a wide range of industries. This is industry insights.
So today we have Tamara Taylor, who is, uh, an entrepreneur who's turned your passion for coding into a huge business where you're helping support and empower EMS professionals to navigate the exciting and challenging world sometimes for sure of, uh, medical coding. So it is a pleasure to have you here.
Welcome to Thank you. Our little outdoor studio for the day. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Yeah. So. Probably [00:01:00] the easiest place to start is the beginning. Mm-hmm. So if you just wanna take me back, you know, how did you, was this your first career, was EMS coding or Whew. How far back do you wanna go? Uh, childhood.
So, um. I started coding in 2005. Okay. Right outta high school. Okay. And was what kind of coding? Was it medical or was it medical coding. Okay. Really out of high school. Um, but it wasn't my choice. Okay. Medical coding chose me. Okay. I wanted to tell me more. I wanted to go to school for, um, architecture. Okay.
Real estate. And you know that field, which that I do have my real estate license as well. Um. But when I moved here to Atlanta in 2005 as well, being a victim of Katrina, a lady hired me who had her own billing company and I had no clue. Never heard of it. I was just like, I just need a job. Yep. And I just stuck with it.
It had just been really [00:02:00] part of my life ever since. So that's why I say it chose me. Okay. But so you come outta architecture and that is the plan? Yeah. And so it was really just a temporary job. That's all It was it like what was the plan there, like six months or was it It was no plan. I was 18 and I was living my life in Atlanta.
Okay. So what, what were you told as to what medical coding was when, when you started that? I don't think I was really given a definition. It was just like, okay, here is what I need you to do. Okay. I was like, okay. And I'm sure I screwed a lot of things up because I had no clue. Not have not read on it or anything.
Yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do it. And then, um, I went to school for it because I was like, I was doing it for two years. I don't like feeling like I'm wasting my time, so lemme go to school for it. Okay. And I was just. So there is a school for medical coding or medical coding. Okay. I went to Virginia College in Biloxi when I moved back [00:03:00] home.
Mm-hmm. Um, 2007 went there. The great thing about it, most of the time when you're getting into this business, you have to have two years experience. Mm. Luckily I had exactly two years experience Yeah. When I was here. So I feel like it was all just working in my favor for this moment. Right. So. Um, went to school, then I started working for a DME company.
What's DME? Um, durable medical equipment. Okay. Wheelchairs and so forth. And then I went on to a gastro um, facility mm-hmm. Where it was like five doctors. It was a large facility. Yeah. And then I grew in that company. So every company that I've been with, I have increased because I've always worked jobs.
Like it was my business. Okay. Right. And so I elevated in that facility. I was there for five years and then I left from [00:04:00] there and went to work DOD at the base in Biloxi. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, I have reached my max here and Mississippi, so let me go, let me go back to Atlanta where I know that if I want to be great, I know I can do it here.
Okay. Yeah. I just for anybody who's listening mm-hmm. And wants to know what medical coding even is. Mm-hmm. You know, you didn't really have an idea when you got into it. Yeah. But, but how would you describe what it is now? Medical coding is basically telling a story to insurance companies about what the provider did for the patient.
Okay. So that we're talking you, you go, you know, you go to an appointment like what's, mm-hmm. Give me kind of an example of what that is. Yes. Going to your appointment, going to your regular doctor. Mm-hmm. They see you, they do a checkup. They say, lift your arms. Does this hurt when they hit your leg? Are you taking medications?
What you know, what are your issues? And they talk about it as you're telling them your concerns and what your problems are. Even if you're just going for an annual [00:05:00] visit, they are writing this down. Mm-hmm. And everything that they're doing for you. Ordering labs. Um, your diagnosis, the problems, all of those are codes for numeric codes Okay.
For, um, insurance companies. And so basically we talk to them, we take those words that the provider put on your encounter form or your office visit note and change it into numbers. Okay. So you code the words and you provide those to the insurance providers. Mm-hmm. Okay. So is it always that you're receiving the info directly from like a doctor?
Is that how the flow of info goes? Um, it could. Mm-hmm. But with EMS world, it is put into a database called, um, ImageTrend. Mm-hmm. They put their runs in, reread the runs, they put this patient up from their residents, took them to dialysis, or they picked the patient up from the hospital and took them home.
There is a [00:06:00] code for picking them up from home. Taking them to dialysis and so forth. So everything that you're doing. Is a number or a letter per se, or you know, to talk to the insurance company. Okay. Yeah. And we're gonna get into how all of this works. Mm-hmm. With EMS providers too. Yeah. But I wanted to at least make sure I understood mm-hmm.
What the minimum is. Yeah. When we talk medical coding. Mm-hmm. So it's just the translation really. Yes. From words and the numbers so that insurance can charge the right amount. Yes, you're right. Yeah. So they can pay the right amount. Pay the right amount, yes. Right. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So let's go back to where we left off.
You were in Mississippi. You moved to Atlanta? Mm-hmm. Were, did you move to Atlanta to take another job or is that when you came out on your own? Um, when I moved back in 2018. Mm-hmm. I moved back off of the whim of it is time to go. I was a homeowner in Mississippi. I had all the things and everybody would've been like, your life is, what are you, what are you missing?
Um, I just knew I was missing more. I've always been hard on myself about wanting [00:07:00] a good life. So, um. 2018, I came here with a vision. I was like, I'm coming here to start my business. Wow. That's it. That's all. And I did come. I got a job and then 2020 I went full time with the business. About six months after I got my first client.
Wow. Yeah. You built it all on your own. Yep. Got your client. What was, yeah. How hard was it to get that first client? Oh, listen. It, it really was not that hard. Okay. I wanna say that because I've had a years of nos Yeah. Before then. Right. So I think it was just now time for the Yes. I took the leap of faith.
I moved, me and my children, we moved here. Um, and I was gonna have a partner actually. Right. And me and the partner, we were on different levels or we wanted it to go a [00:08:00] different way. I. Yeah, and she brought on the client at the time, but there was a fee involved and her fee was here, and they were like, no.
It was like here they were just starting out. Yeah. As you know, starting an EMS company is expensive. Mm-hmm. So I took them at this low price to get my foot in the door. Okay. And she did not wanna do that, so I moved forward. Okay. So I kept them and I worked my full-time job as well. I will work that account at night in my basement.
Just me and my computer in my desk. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So, and that was an EMS provider, was your first client? Yeah. Are all of your clients are all, are they exclusively EM s providers? Yes. All of them are EAMS providers, so. That first one. Mm-hmm. You're working And what was your, your job at the time too? You said you were working full time?
Yeah, I was a coder. Okay. So you were coding for, for a company and you were applying it mm-hmm. And really building it right there? Mm-hmm. Wow. Okay. So that, that first one was. A difficult [00:09:00] one in some ways because of everything else going on. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But that, that really opened the door for everything else that came afterwards.
It did. Okay. I realized it was time to go. Um, 'cause I was getting phone calls while I was at work. I had to always step away from my desk. I'm going to answer the phone. Okay. This is my business. I gotta put me first. So, um, that's what I did and I was like, okay, it's time to go. Hmm. And yeah. So at what, yeah.
Was it one client that, that all you had when you mm-hmm. Fully transitioned to full-time. Okay. It was one and I was like, okay, they're growing. So now my, um, fee was grow, you know, increasing. Mm-hmm. So I was like, I can live off of this until we grow some, you know, get more clients. I didn't know when it was gonna come.
I just knew it was going to eventually start rolling in. Yeah, right. I started making phone calls. Um, cold calling, um, sending out flyers, and eventually they all, I mean, they [00:10:00] all said no at first because I was small. Yeah. But quite a few of them are with me still now. What, what do you think it was? You know, you think about those early ones, you have to differentiate yourself somehow.
Yeah. You have to prove that. Mm-hmm. It's worth switching to you. What do you think it was that we were in the company held the door open. We, we didn't have the glitz and the glams of a big company. We didn't have, um, the backing the experience to say, I mean, I used my experience of being in the coding world Yeah.
Because I know how to code and if I don't know an answer, I know how to figure it out. Mm. And really that's what coding is. And so, um, it was just, I didn't have the glitz and the glam. That's what I would say. Yeah. I was in this little office just starting out. It was just me. I had another, I had one other part-time person, but for the most part it was me doing all the work.
And I can see how that can be a concern for businesses starting out. They need their [00:11:00] money. They don't want any hiccup. So, yeah. I was like, yeah, that was the problem. Yeah. But at the same time, in a lot of ways, that has to be the advantage of them saying, if I work with you, I know that I can call you and you're gonna have all the answers.
Yeah. Which is different than all of those other companies. Oh. That was the major shift. Because we figure out the answers. We know what to ask the insurance companies because it's not always black and white. And sometimes what they're saying to you, if you've been in a business for a while, you know that, Hmm, let me ask this a different way.
Ah, so I can get the right answer. Uh, let me hang up and call back. Get a different writer, put me back in the queue because what you're saying to me doesn't make sense. And we are, that's what has helped us grow the way that we are now because. We get the job done and we don't always take no for an [00:12:00] answer.
Sometimes the answer's no, but sometimes it's just not. Yeah. Okay. So when you're working with EMS providers, really they don't get paid or don't get paid correctly unless they get this right? If I'm understanding it correctly, you are the intermediary between mm-hmm. Them and what they said they did.
Mm-hmm. And the insurance and actually paying them for that. Mm-hmm. So walk me through a little bit of what a typical process looks like. Let's say, you know, there's one of these claims. You've done the translation and you said that there's some back and forth sometimes. Mm-hmm. So what does it normally look like for you as you're trying to get the right money?
Like how much back and forth is there? What is your process? Um, so first they'll get a patient. They send a patient over to us to vet. We let them know this patient has a copay, they have a deductible, they have a max out-of-pocket amount, they need a, um, prior authorization. Mm-hmm. Um, we let them know upfront what those details are for you to get paid.
Um, and if they need an authorization, we let them know what we need to get the [00:13:00] authorization and we handle it from there. Once they send that information over, we have all the things that we need. We send the claim over, um, to the insurance company based off of what they put in gem sys, that's what they use, or our image trend is what it's called as well.
And from there the claim is sent out. We verify to make sure that that claim was paid correctly. 'cause sometimes it's not. You if you are in network or out of network, that matters too on the payments. So sometimes they apply too much to the deductible when they've already met their out of pocket. So it's just an ongoing research battle.
Yeah. I mean, I know how hard it is just for me to figure out what I should be paying and if I got charged wrong for myself. Mm-hmm. And I know everything about mine. Every time you encounter somebody, you're not just dealing with. You know what they said they did, but also every different individual insurance provider and all of the absolutely pros and cons of that because all the rules are different.
Yeah. And they all have different plans. Okay. [00:14:00] You and I can have UnitedHealthcare. Mm-hmm. But we can have two different plans and it's completely different. And it's completely different, man. Okay. There, I'm just thinking through this and I would imagine. Not imagine, I know every EMS provider mm-hmm. Has to get this right to get paid, right?
Correct. Like this is the only way. Correct. So how often are people trying to, you know, early on in particular, trying to figure this out on their own? Ooh, a lot. Okay. But you just have to do your due diligence as well, because you are the provider. Yeah. Right. Just like if you go see your doctor, they're the provider.
You are the provider as the EMS company. So you have to make sure that you have all your documentation correct. And if it's not correct, we're gonna let you know it's not correct to make those corrections. Yeah. But I just can't even, I'm trying to picture starting this on my own. [00:15:00] Mm-hmm. I don't know how.
I would have any idea how to figure out mm-hmm. Medical coding. Mm-hmm. And it's, there's no revenue without it. Right. So do people just, I guess, stumble through it and get it wrong for a while? Probably. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Yep. That's what happens. Um, we have, I would say one or two clients that start out that way and they're like, yeah, no, it's too, it is so many moving pieces.
Yeah. Checking patient benefits, authorizations that you have to submit and that you have to, um, follow up on. Um, the codes are changing. You wanna make sure you put the right modifiers, you wanna make sure you put the right costs, you wanna make sure that the insurance is paying them correct. It's like, it's so many different moving pieces.
Are we gonna send a patient a statement? Yeah. Or we going, you know, send 'em a bill. It's so many different. Yeah. And I, I just can't even imagine how somebody would do it without working with someone. Like, I don't know how it's possible without using a vendor. I mean. You could probably do it yourself, but you've got a lot of experience and it's [00:16:00] taking time.
Exactly. So I don't know how like with all the other challenges of getting one of these off the ground and running correctly. Yeah, yeah. This is one that would just feel such, like such a challenge. Mm-hmm. Because of how foreign it feels and how painful it feels that you're not getting paid. Mm-hmm. Yes.
And 'cause nobody's happy about no delays on payment. Yeah. But you definitely have to make sure that what we're asking you to do. You do it in a timely manner. Yeah. Because if not, you are going to feel the pain of not getting reimbursed. Right. In a timely manner. Well, 'cause what is even e even under the best of conditions, how long does it take to, to get one of these reimbursements?
So, um, the insurance companies are different. Mm-hmm. Medicare is about 14 days. Okay. Um, I've seen them take longer. They say, well, we have 30 days. And I'm like, but you've been paying 14 days for the past three years. Yeah. Okay. So sometimes there are just hiccups in the system. So, um, like Aetna takes about, I've seen them do 72 hours.
I've seen 'em take a [00:17:00] week. Um, UnitedHealthcare is the longest. Okay. It will heavy on the will all caps. Yeah. Take 30 days, which can seem so long when you're taking a patient three times a week. Oh yeah. And, and if you do something wrong or if you've labeled something incorrectly, I gotta send it back to you.
That's a delay. 'cause I can't send it out the same day. Yeah. So. It will take 30 days. United Healthcare is the longest. Yeah. And you don't get to choose who your patients are using. I mean, no, you can seek out patients with specific providers. Mm-hmm. And maybe at the same time, you gotta take patients. You Right.
You gotta have revenue coming in. You have to figure it out. Yeah. Because it's not black and white. That's why we have a, a conversation because when it's in the patient, patients over to us to verify. Sometimes we have to have a conversation. Mm-hmm. Because it's not just, yes, you can take them and no, you cannot take them.
Yeah. It just depends on what your schedule is, like, how they fit in your runs [00:18:00] already. Yeah. Um, if they have a high out of pocket, like they usually do at the beginning of the year, are you gonna hold the runs? Is the patient on hospice? If they're on hospice, you don't wanna hold the runs 'cause we don't know what their lifeline looks like.
So it's so many different moving pieces that you have to think about. Yeah. And we talk to them about all of that because we, you know, we talk about logistics industries a lot here. Mm-hmm. And this is one where. You're not making just a, you know, a decision about a package. Right. This is a person. Mm-hmm.
And so it really, there's that added pressure. Mm-hmm. And impact of, mm-hmm. I don't want to turn someone or decide not to take someone to the hospital. Because I'm worried about a delay here because they might not have another option or Right. You, this is something where you are really impacting these people and the community.
And it's not just something where you're making a black and white profit. and Right. Loss decision. Mm-hmm. So that makes it even more difficult. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To make the right decision there and think about the business when you're also [00:19:00] worried about people. Absolutely. So I know we talked about some of the complexities on the insurance side.
Mm-hmm. How often are you actually having to go in and correct some of the challenges from. The way the provider might not have recorded things correctly, um, every day. So I know that they're moving around, they're on the trucks and they making mistakes. Sometimes the pickup and the drop off location is the same.
Mm-hmm. We have to correct that. You can't pick them up from the house and take them to the house at, on the same trip. Yeah. So making sure that is correct, making sure that you have the correct signatures. Um, that you're supposed to have on each run, making sure the mileage is documented correctly. Um, and if we see that, normally Jerry goes five miles, but today he went 20.
We need to ask you. What happened? You go, yeah. Stopped at McDonald's. Okay. You did? Yeah. What happened? Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, we are in Atlanta, so maybe it was a wreck. Maybe you had to take a detour. Yeah. But if that's, if, [00:20:00] so we need to make sure that all those things are documented just in case Medicare, whoever, whatever the insurance is, they want clarity on why today?
Is it 20 miles? Yeah. 'cause there's a, a rate that's associated with the mileage. Well, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you can't just say. Uh, you know, I took a, a detour. Mm-hmm. It was, it was my scenic route. Mm-hmm. 'cause they're, you're paying, you have to justify it. That what Yeah. That, yes. Yeah. So, you know, 'cause when, let's say you're working with a provider who has, you know, six ambulances out on the road mm-hmm.
Is it the individual driver that is putting what their services are? Or does the owner of the company do it? The individual driver. Okay. So there's also the individual driver to driver variances and new drivers. Mm-hmm. So you're, you're pretty intimately involved in. The way the business is structured and who they've brought in.
'cause you kinda have to be. Yep. Okay. Mm-hmm. So what is, when you bring on a new client mm-hmm. What does kind of that onboarding process look like? So we make sure you have all your documentations if you are an established company already. Mm-hmm. We make sure that you are set up with all the [00:21:00] insurance companies that you are supposed to be set up with.
Mm-hmm. Um, and also that you have EFT, which is electronic funds transfer. Ah, that is important because you don't wanna be waiting on checks. Right. And yeah. With all the other delays involved, you don't wanna also wait on a check. You do not wanna wait on that. 'cause it, it can you, somebody else might get your mail.
Yeah. Right. And so, and then it's a headache trying to get the insurance to reimburse you that check. So we make sure that you are set up correctly initially when you come over. Um, we also vet your patients. If you come over and you already have a patient load, we verify the patients, even if you've been taking them for.
Six months or a year, we still go back and check so that we understand what insurance and what benefits the patient has for our That's huge. Clear mind. I mean, I've gotta imagine that there's plenty of people that come in that tell you they have one thing or one plan who's coming close to the reality.
Yes. And then they change insurance [00:22:00] every month seems like, and then the patients say, well, I don't remember changing. How do you stay on top of that? How do you stay on top of the patient's insurance and updating in the system? We have to check every, every month check, and then sometimes when we check it, we almost, we have to almost check it like after the fifth or the seventh because it has not updated yet.
Right. Yeah. So it's like. It is, it, it is, you know? Yeah. It's just, it's a struggle. A constant flux. Yeah. It's a constant flow and it's gotta be nice as a provider to know somebody else is doing that for you. 'cause it's just one more mm-hmm. Headache that you would've to deal with. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And have no idea.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so, so they come in, you vet all the patients and then are, are they good to go typically? How long does it take to kind of. Get started with you. So it depends on how fast you want to get started. Right. So I would say it'll take for us to get the system set up, the software set up, um, that's really on the software side.
Mm-hmm. You sign the documentation, um, the agreement with [00:23:00] them, that takes about maybe a week. Okay. We vet the patients. That's another week or so, depending on how many patients you have. Right. And then if you have any authorizations that's needed, we go through that. We sort through that to make sure that everything is great, it's good to go.
And so I would say about three to four weeks max is how long it could take to get started. Mm-hmm. And then you get rolling and we get rolling and billing. So, you know, we, I think we left off when you were at one patient. Where did it go from there? Oh, the one client Uhhuh. One client, sorry. Yes. Oh wow. So the one client.
Um, they dissolved the company, the, because the, the owners had different views for the company and so, but they were well known in the city of Atlanta. Okay. And, um. I was like, okay, well you gonna refer us, said we need referrals. You know, we do a great [00:24:00] job for you. You know, we did a good job. We know we weren't the problem in the steel, we were not the problem.
So can we get some referrals, Uhhuh? And so one thing changed where an established hunts, he called about getting, um, a patient vetted mm-hmm. That his previous billing company said that they could not take. Right. Okay. Why, why would you, why would there ever be a patient that you couldn't take if they do not have, um, non-emergency benefits or they don't have out of network provider benefits?
Okay. Um, so those are the major two things. And I was like, well, yeah, you can take that patient. We vetted the patient, we understand what needs to be done. You have to get an authorization, but you will get paid. And so I. That is what led to the, the growth at that moment, uh, because the word ran around, [00:25:00] went around, call her, she'll let you know you can take this patient.
Yeah. Because they're telling us, no, we can't, but we can. And they're losing money. Tamara knows more than what they're saying and she's gonna get, she's gonna help you there. We just dig a little deeper. Yeah, we dig a lot deeper. Okay. Yeah. 'cause I would, I mean. It's gotta be huge. If you're an EMS provider to find a client and you're like, yes, I'm adding this to my revenue.
Yeah. And then you find out that they can't pay you. Yeah. So I, I assume that's part of the research you guys do. Yes. On the front end. Mm-hmm. Like what, what do you look for to, why would somebody say that they couldn't And you guys find that they can, if a provider said they could not Yeah. Um, maybe it didn't fit with the time chair.
Okay. The chair time. I mean, um, 'cause they already have a patient. Um, at that same chair time, they can't fit in their schedule. Um, or they just don't like the insurance. Now some of 'em don't like certain insurances either. Yeah. So that is the two major reasons why they would say no. Okay. But [00:26:00] when you, you said that like Hans had the patient that another coder said that they couldn't pay.
Yeah. So how did you guys find a way for them to be able to, oh, we just called. We just call. Just talk to him and talk to him and ask. Ask them. You have to know what questions to ask. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we are the pros and we, like I said, we just don't take no for an answer all the time. Yeah. We read. A lot of the information is online.
You just have to understand it and know what you're looking for. Yeah, and you're right, sometimes it's not having all the answers, it's having all the questions bads seriously that that goes. And sometimes people just quit because they don't even know where to go next. Yeah. Okay. So you're finding ways to open doors and allow patients to, to actually pay these EMS providers?
Absolutely. And open up doors, but also. Make sure that they're paying correctly. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I'm sure that the ones that are difficult to get approved are not the ones that are the easiest to, to keep [00:27:00] in the system and pay correctly. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think Medicare now is probably the most difficult.
Mm-hmm. Just because of the, um, authorizations. Yeah. They're more strict on what they will accept for documentation to approve the authorization. So other than that, most of them, the Medicare Advantage plans, they don't, um, they're not strict. Is Medicare. Yeah. I, I, I mean, I think there's, there's so many layers to this though.
Mm-hmm. And it is so important. 'cause it's not just about being correct. Correct. In the way that you approve the process. Mm-hmm. But also, like you said, there's a lot of research and a lot of questions that you ask to make sure that sometimes there will be either a payment that. Wasn't going to get approved.
Mm-hmm. Or that something was done correctly that you can solve. Mm-hmm. And at the end of the day, that's the only way people get paid. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, and that's the only way any of this works. Mm-hmm. If you're getting paid by Medicare, if you're, if the insurance providers are paying. Right.
That's the only way. [00:28:00] Okay. So that client referrals you grow, you know? Is that kind of where we are today from, uh, wow. A current plan? No. Okay. Wow. We're gonna get deep. I hope you're ready. I'm ready. Okay. So. Clients grew and at that point I think we grew too fast. Right? It happens. Yeah. Um, the word was getting around.
Everyone was coming over and I did not have the proper staff, mainly because I didn't have the proper income, because most of the clients that we were taking on were new. They didn't have any patience, but they needed the most attention. Mm-hmm. So. If I didn't have the staff to give them the most attention because they don't have any revenue coming in right now.
They're working on it. It, it caused, you know, some issues at first. Yeah. It's that you're, you're working to build the brand and you're, you're making exceptions to make it all work, but you hit a breaking point, I assume. Yeah, absolutely. [00:29:00] Absolutely. And it just, it got kind of overwhelming and so years down the line I was like, oh, I'm just gonna sell the business.
Okay. It got, it got, you know, yeah, it got tough. And so in that moment of my life, I sold the business. So you did sell it? I did sell. Sell it. Wow. At that time we were tailored medical management. Okay. And then it wasn't mine to sell. I, um, big on my prayer life. And um, I will say God gave it back to me.
Within the last year. Wow. We started over last year. Okay. With the same clients and then, but we have exceeded from when we sold the business. Wow. To now. Well, what do you think it was that brought you back, like mentally? You know, you were in a place where you felt like you had to sell. Yeah. And then mentally you were in a place where you take it back and you're growing and thriving.
Yeah. What, what changed for [00:30:00] you? Um, I would say in that moment where I felt like I had to sell was. I had just had my baby girl. I was dealing with a lot of postpartum, just stress of it all. Yeah. Of that and some other personal issues. Right. Yeah. That was going on. I was like, I need to let go of something.
De-stress somehow. Yeah. Something has to go. Yeah, it is gonna be me or the business. And at the moment, the best thing was the business because I employ my family. Right. So for them it was, I gotta do something to where they can still stay afloat 'cause I'm gonna be fine. I've always felt that way. I've always felt like I'm gonna be fine.
No, obviously you did, you moved to, moved to Atlanta and you're like, I'm I'll figure it out. And you did. Yes, and I did. I sold my house and moved the same day. So, um,
yep. So I sold because I [00:31:00] wanted to make sure that my family was gonna be okay. And, um, I took me some time to regroup. Um, and
I was on real estate in between that time while I was off, right? And so that held me over, but it was like, no, something happened. Um, I let go of something that needed to be let go in my life. And from that moment I was like, oh, wait a minute. Did I sell my business? It was like a surreal moment. Yeah. Like literally it was like a surreal moment.
I was like, oh no, something, some, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um, and it just worked out to where God gave it back to me. Yeah. That's really the answer. He gave it back to me. And then you picked up the same clients or similar clients? Picked up the same clients, yeah, same clients. And we are much bigger than when we were before I sold it.
Wow. And I, I assume it's [00:32:00] more than just you now. Yes. We have six employees. Okay. And we're growing. I'm still looking because every time I think, okay, we're good. We have enough employees. It's like, no, you don't. Here's more business. I'm like, okay. Yeah, we're still growing. So, um, yeah, we are, oh my gosh, we are, have expanded outside of Georgia.
Okay. Yeah. Yes. So where, where did you go next? Ohio? Um. New Jersey, Florida. Okay. Um, we just got a contact the other day from DC, Maryland, and Virginia. Wow. Okay. So everywhere. Everywhere now. So I know insurance providers mm-hmm. Are in some ways the same, but are there state to state differences you have to learn too?
Yes, there are. Especially for Medicaid. Yeah. And, um, then you have your different Medicare max. Um. That different rules. I [00:33:00] was on a call last week with the Medicare max at the coalitions for Medicares, and so many different questions was coming up and it was like, yes. Like this is what's needed. Yeah. We are expanding.
So understanding that what Georgia requires, New Jersey doesn't require that and what New Jersey requires. Georgia doesn't. So making sure that those are in place. Mm-hmm. In that training, I am training our staff as well because, um, our, um, clients have their own coder basically, um, which we call their account reps.
And what I like to do is train, cross, train everyone so that we can all grow together just in case. What if you're out? We need someone to step in for you and you might code for someone in Maine. They need to know how to do that. Yeah. So we cross train everyone. Yeah. I mean, that's huge too though, for you because now if you are working with a provider that is in multiple states mm-hmm.
You can say, I have cross state [00:34:00] knowledge and I can do both too. Absolutely. Because there's plenty of those that have grown big enough where they need multiple state help. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's what's happening. They want to expand. Yeah. And the one that was in dc, Maryland, and Virginia, that was one client.
Yeah. Which is, it's good, it's it's revenue, but it's also like, okay, now I gotta go learn DC, Maryland and Virginia all at once. I gotta do this, print out this paper, highlight this, do this. Yeah. And, but the great thing about, I just, I love to learn. I love you. Don't stop learning. Sounds like there's plenty of it.
Yeah. Once you stop learning, you stop growing. Mm-hmm. And in the medical field, you, there are things always changing, the codes are changing every year, so you have to, you know, do your research. Who knows. Medicare stuff's changing all the time right now. No. Oh my gosh. Whew. That's another conversation.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean it's, I'd imagine beyond just the state level differences you're having to learn. Yeah, exactly. Like you said, if you aren't on top of mm-hmm. Everything that's happening, all of the coding, and that could or could not change, you [00:35:00] get something wrong and then your client's stuff gets delayed.
Or they don't get paid. Or they don't get paid enough. Exactly. And they're like, Tamara, yeah. That's why I pay you. Yeah. They're not gonna call their their rep. Yeah. They're gonna call me. So it's the good and the bad of being the person they know. Yep, absolutely. So you've worked with a lot of different providers.
Mm-hmm. New and current. Mm-hmm. You've been in this for years now. What would you say is something that a lot of people get wrong or that you wish they would understand more when they got into EMS for the first time? Oh God. It is not a overnight success. Yeah. It is a waiting game. Right. So even when you are a new company mm-hmm.
And you get your, let's just say you get your, um, Medicare number, that's not all, it don't stop there. Then we have to get you, then we have to fill out an application for EDI, basically electronic, um, permission to send claims. Mm-hmm. So they think, okay, I have my Medicare number ready to go. [00:36:00] No, not quite.
It's an important step, but it's an important step. Yeah. You're on third base, right? So, um, we have to complete this other form that's gonna take maybe another two weeks. Yeah, I'm, and I'm sure that there's a lot of, it's, so it's exciting once you start mm-hmm. But you don't get to start immediately. So I'm, I'm sure that there's a lot of that mental.
Yeah. Almost therapy you have to provide for people. I'm a paid therapist. Yeah. Counselor. I am. All of that. I am listening to the stories. I am like, I understand. It's okay. Stick with it. I'm here to help. It's gonna make sense eventually. Mm-hmm. You just gotta stay with it. Yeah. And listen to what we're telling you to do.
Yeah. And I know it sounds like for you a lot of, like one of the best things about the job is kind of the learning. Mm-hmm. And the newness. Mm-hmm. Like always feeling like you're growing in that way. Mm-hmm. What's some of the most gratifying things that you see working with the actual EMS [00:37:00] providers?
Some of the best parts about that. Wow. When they are faced with challenges of, um, getting paid really and 'cause that's really their main concern and understanding that we have your back and I think most of our clients know that. Tamara has, she was, she has our back. We, yeah. If she says no, it's enough.
Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's huge from a trust perspective. Yes. It's nice to know that they can depend on you, but it's, it's so important to know what your limits are. Mm-hmm. And to be able to say, if I say, you can't do this. Mm-hmm. You can't. And I'm not holding you back. Right. I'm telling you the truth.
I'm telling you the truth. Yeah. Hard limits are important. Yeah. When you need 'em. Yes. Like everybody wants to grow, but there are walls that There are walls. Yeah. And we don't make the rules. We're not paying you outta our bank account. We are fighting with the insurance companies. Mm-hmm. The trust is [00:38:00] a major part.
You have to trust that we're on the same team. We are. This is a partnership. I want you to get paid. Yeah. This is how we get paid, so we are working together with one common goal. Mm-hmm. That's to take care of the patient and for you to grow in your business. And it's vice versa because medical coding for me is still taking care of the patient on the back end.
Yeah. Well, I mean, like we talked about, not only is it making sure that the provider's getting paid mm-hmm. If they're not getting paid. That's when they decide, do I have to drop this patient? Mm-hmm. And then that patient's healthier is at risk. Exactly. So you're very right that it's not just a, a side thing, like you are directly making sure that these patients continue to get taken care of.
Exactly. Exactly. And we've had conversation with patients. Because they don't understand the insurance world. They don't understand what I mean. What's, it's hard to be fair. Yeah, it's fair. I understand They're not worried about this. Do I have insurance? Yes, it should cover it. Uhhuh. [00:39:00] It is not that simple.
And so when we have these conversations with the patients, it is, um, you need to make sure you have ambulance coverage, including all the other coverage that you have for your medicine, the dialysis, or whatever else you need. Don't forget about ambulance. Yeah. Right, because you wanna stay with your provider.
Yes. Okay. Well we're gonna need you to change or we're gonna need you to do, you know, get this insurance or this insurance covers, we give them options. Wow. So you do education on the patient side too? Oh yes. Okay. Abs, we are educating on, I know you better, but you gotta make sure that they're like, make sure they have the right insurance.
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, absolutely. And we give them options 'cause we don't want them to feel like. Just focus on ambulance. Mm-hmm. It's an overall care of the patient. Yeah. Make sure you choose the right insurance for you. Now, it might not cover ambulance, but what are you gonna do? And if you do choose a company that is not going to work in your best [00:40:00] interest, I'm gonna tell you that.
Yeah. I am. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I, I think the consistent message there across the board is you're working with these companies and you're gonna make sure they're moving in the right direction and stop 'em when they're not. Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think it, it's, again, just important to emphasize how much you're doing to be the glue in this process in a way that.
I don't think EMS providers really work well. Mm-hmm. If they don't have some way, if they're not doing it internally, somebody's gotta be doing it for 'em. Yeah, absolutely. It's helping them be correct. Yeah. Helping them get paid and helping to make sure that the patient absolutely is, at the end of the day, prioritize to make sure that they're coming out on top too.
Absolutely. Yeah. And everything feels consistent symbiotic, like. Nobody's moving in a different direction. Mm-hmm. You just gotta make sure that you move at the right pace. Right? Yep. Yep. Wait, when you need to go, when you need to. Yes, absolutely. It's a hurry up and wait game. Perfect. Yep. For sure. Well, mm-hmm.
Uh, I really appreciate you being out here and talking through this. I think it's something that a lot of people, I, you know, for me it's foreign to even hear about. Yeah. And I can't imagine [00:41:00] if I was getting in the space not knowing what to do either. Yes. So I, I think it's really helpful just mm-hmm. For people to get some clarity to see.
They don't have to do this on their own. Right. And to see that there are options. Absolutely. But you have to do something. You've gotta, otherwise you don't get paid to do something. So this is, this is a step you have to take. Yes. This is a partnership. Yeah. I am going to keep saying that. It is a partnership.
We are gonna need you to do the work too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's. If you're an entrepreneur, hopefully you've understood at least that. Yeah. This isn't gonna be a, you know, a coasting, right. Work, no coasting you need to do, yeah. No cruise control. Uhhuh. Yeah. Awesome. Well, one of the things I always ask people to do when they're on here is, mm-hmm.
You can, I'll give you a choice. What is either your favorite book or your favorite movie that you're watching or reading right now? Oh, favorite book is the one thing. Okay. I think it's called one thing. Okay. Yeah. What is, what's that about? Um, being great at what [00:42:00] your, um, purpose is. Your one thing. Your one thing instead of dibble and dabbling in everything.
'cause you're gonna be pulled. Mm-hmm. You can't master it the way that you need to. So, and that helped me a lot between coding and real estate. I had a battle. I didn't wanna You could do both. I could, yeah. You know, but something is going to lack Right. And, um, I wanna be excellent at what I do. I'm not gonna be perfect.
We're gonna make mistakes. We're not ai. Yeah. Right? We're not AI yet, and we're human. We're gonna, mistakes are gonna happen. Yeah. Right. But, um, we strive to do the best thing, the best thing that we can the first time. Um, so that book stood out to me. It was like, choose one. It's okay. Yeah. And it sounds like you've mastered that one thing.
Yeah. It sounds like that's where you've thrive. That's it. That's it? Yeah. Yes. Okay. It has just taken over my life. [00:43:00] Awesome. So I'm walking in it, I'm accepting it gracefully. Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. Whether even if you get pulled away, you came right back. So, yeah, listen it, I'm like, okay, God. I'm here. I'm here. I get it.
I get it. It okay. Oh, I'm, I'm in, I'm in now. Okay. Exactly. So, yeah. Well, it was a pleasure having you out here in our, you outside studio. Even in the rain. Even in the rain. Thank you for being here and answering all my questions. Thank and helping everybody who's listening. Thank you for having me. Yep.
Perfect.
